Curse

lord dragon · Sep 07, 2007, 08:06 PM // 20:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

When you bored with all 3 games?

I've got near to 2 years of playability out of this game, and that is just on ONE character. Ive done prophercies, factions, NF and now GWEN and done most everything you can except elite zones.

That also includes doing all HM missions too and I loved that and it added months more playability.

Have you honestly done EVERYTHING you can in GWs on just one character?

Even if you have got bored with all 3 games, for a game to last 2 years is very impressive and you cant criticise Anet for that. Most other games I have ever played last about 3 weeks and then gather dust on my shelf.

But with GWs ive played nearly ever night for 2-3 hours like an addiction. To try and suggest that Anet dont have a clue about how to keep people interested is just nonsense.

But every game has its limits and a lifespan. Did you honsetly think GWs content was going to last for ever and continue to give you endless supplies of stuff to do?

Ofcourse it gets boring after a while of playing. Ive been there and felt that myself. I nearly left the game until HM was added.

But even when you have done everything... what is so bad about just spending the time you have maxing titles? what else was Anet meant to do, to add more life to the game?

Honestly... you list stuff that Anet could have done to add more life to the game other then add titles to max?

They gave us 3 campaigns with hundreds of quest and dozens of missions. Hundres of weapons, dozens of armors, elite zones, dungeons, heroes to develop and loads of other content that has last a long time.

But there was bound to be a point where they ran out of ideas...

....titles were a great addition for those who had done everything. Yes it may be grinding to max them out, but we have titles that cover alot of aspects.

Exploration,
Mission completion,
Iding rare objects,
Opening chests,
Mini game playing,
Faction battles,
Hero battles etc etc etc etc...

...there is bound to be a title to cover someones taste and if you wish to max them out you can. If you done want to... then you dont have to.

Seriously... tell me what else Anet could have done or added to increase the life span of the game?

Please reread the post. I stated WHEN I get bored. Didn't state that was yet by any means. Are you just trying to flame anyone with a different opinion? I can tell by your posts you enjoy GWEN, congrats. I am happy for you. For me it took a game that was slightly out of balance and pushed it way out of balance.

freekedoutfish · Sep 07, 2007, 08:13 PM // 20:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by lord dragon

Let me ask you a question please.

Have you ever done DOA?

Have you ever done DOA with a pickup team?

Without level 4 lightbringer, good luck in finding one.

To get that you have to grind. It is not the skill involved, it is sensless killing again and again. EOTN is not just one title to do this with now, but multiple titles. I didn't like that aspect of Nightfall, but it was only one title. Now we are talking taking a bad idea and expanding it to extremes.

You argument of you don't need to skill to complete the game is correct. You don't. But what happens when you have a title 8 with a skill and a level 1? The level 8 gets picked because it is interpreted he is better.

The smart players know that this is not the case. Just means the player mindlessly hit c, space bar over and over.

These to unbalance the game and for the PVE player.

1) No i havent done DOA because I dont enjoy it, but I have done the ROT and I do know that LB gaze makes a huge difference and I did state somewhere that was the ONLY pve only skill that Anet forced us to use. But the rest we dont need to.

2) Yes GWEN has multiple pve only skills to choose from, but again its optional. If a peron wants to use a pve only skill and max their title out to benefit it, that is their choice and let them. But it makes no difference to me if someone is using the same skill, but theirs is more or less powerfull.

3) I have never once only used a player or seen a leader only use a player in pve, because they have a higher rank in a certain title then someone else.

That kind of thing may happen in HOA and pvp, but ive never known anyone to be picky about players because one has a higher rank then someone else. I dunno which players you do pve with, but they must be pretty arogant or anal.

So no.. again, aside from LB gaze there are NO other pve only skills that we are forced to use and they are purely optional. And if I ever saw someone in a team not choose a player because their title wasnt high enough for their "elite team" I would leave and tell them to grow up.

Ive done that before when ive felt a team was too anal and being judgemental and i got the mission or quest done with a nicer group of people.

Players in this game are far too.... (thinks of best word).... concerned about being better then the person next to them. They think they have to max everything out to be able to do stuff.

The simply fact is that you dont have to use the skill set the leader tells you too, you dont have to have max rank to be accepted into a team and you dont have to even use the pve only skills.

LB is the only exception, but that skill was still very effective at any rank bellow 10. The only difference LB gaze got with a higher rank, was how many enemies it effected. It didnt increase the damage output (i dont think).

So if someone said to you "your not joining cos your not rank 10 lightbringer" you tell them to f'off and get a life. This is PvE, not PvP where you get judged on your ranks.

freekedoutfish · Sep 07, 2007, 08:16 PM // 20:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by lord dragon

Please reread the post. I stated WHEN I get bored. Didn't state that was yet by any means. Are you just trying to flame anyone with a different opinion? I can tell by your posts you enjoy GWEN, congrats. I am happy for you. For me it took a game that was slightly out of balance and pushed it way out of balance.

Im not flaming anyone, but alot of people here are criticising Anet for how they add more playability and lifespan to the game. Yet i havent seen anyone suggest a better idea then adding more titles to increase.

And if you dont like GWEN and you feel it unbalances something, then dont play. How does GWEN effect you and your fun? if you dont want to grind titles, or get pve only skills then dont. if you dont want anything to do with GWEN then dont.

I would just love to know how all these anti-grind people want Anet to add more lifespan to the game, without using grind!

They've given us 3 campaigns and an expansion and years of content, so what more can they do?

lord dragon · Sep 07, 2007, 08:19 PM // 20:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

1) No i havent done DOA because I dont enjoy it, but I have done the ROT and I do know that LB gaze makes a huge difference and I did state somewhere that was the ONLY pve only skill that Anet forced us to use. But the rest we dont need to.

2) Yes GWEN has multiple pve only skills to choose from, but again its optional. If a peron wants to use a pve only skill and max their title out to benefit it, that is their choice and let them. But it makes no difference to me if someone is using the same skill, but theirs is more or less powerfull.

3) I have never once only used a player or seen a leader only use a player in pve, because they have a higher rank in a certain title then someone else.

That kind of thing may happen in HOA and pvp, but ive never known anyone to be picky about players because one has a higher rank then someone else. I dunno which players you do pve with, but they must be pretty arogant or anal.

So no.. again, aside from LB gaze there are NO other pve only skills that we are forced to use and they are purely optional. And if I ever saw someone in a team not choose a player because their title wasnt high enough for their "elite team" I would leave and tell them to grow up.

Ive done that before when ive felt a team was too anal and being judgemental and i got the mission or quest done with a nicer group of people.

Players in this game are far too.... (thinks of best word).... concerned about being better then the person next to them. They think they have to max everything out to be able to do stuff.

The simply fact is that you dont have to use the skill set the leader tells you too, you dont have to have max rank to be accepted into a team and you dont have to even use the pve only skills.

LB is the only exception, but that skill was still very effective at any rank bellow 10. The only difference LB gaze got with a higher rank, was how many enemies it effected. It didnt increase the damage output (i dont think).

So if someone said to you "your not joining cos your not rank 10 lightbringer" you tell them to f'off and get a life. This is PvE, not PvP where you get judged on your ranks.

Rank you get by hitting C, space bar, correct? Just want to make sure we agree on something so we can have some common ground.

lord dragon · Sep 07, 2007, 08:26 PM // 20:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

Im not flaming anyone, but alot of people here are criticising Anet for how they add more playability and lifespan to the game. Yet i havent seen anyone suggest a better idea then adding more titles to increase.

And if you dont like GWEN and you feel it unbalances something, then dont play. How does GWEN effect you and your fun? if you dont want to grind titles, or get pve only skills then dont. if you dont want anything to do with GWEN then dont.

I would just love to know how all these anti-grind people want Anet to add more lifespan to the game, without using grind!

They've given us 3 campaigns and an expansion and years of content, so what more can they do?

I think I understand what you are saying. What could Anet do to add to the game that they have not already done. Keep it inexpensive, and keep players interest for 18 months while they work on GW2. Am I correct on that premise?

As for not wanting to do anything with GWEN, I purchased it through NCSoft. I believe, and correct me if I am wrong again, gives me an opinion that I can state. I am not stating it is fact for the world to agree with, but, my opinion. As with you opinion, which I agree needs to be stated here so people see a balanced discussion, I believe it also needs to be stated.

If GWEN skills were limited to GWEN, I could go on with the other 3 campains and keep myself very occupied. Toss up GWEN as a purchase mistake, sort of like renting a couple of bad movies. But, alas, they can go into other campains.

Star Gazer · Sep 07, 2007, 08:41 PM // 20:41

wow, there is a rank 10 LB? never knew that. thought mine was maxed at 8...oh well o.o

anyway, its not so much about being better than others...its a sense of accomplishment. lets face it, we play games to win. we do not want to lose, and we dont want to spend hours a day to accomplish some small feat. granted, i love the grind...it will keep me interested in the game for just a little bit, but it will get old doing it on all 10 characters. i say if someone wants to have max armor, let them. if that is their sense of accomplishment, why should it be so bad?

people, like freekedout fish and the 'fanboi' bandits, tend to think ANet has the BEST way of doing things, and if you are not doing it their way, then it is wrong. People tend to forget that others have lives outside of the game, and having people grind and grind and grind when they do not have the TIME.

Anet has lost touch with their playerbase...did they not realize the success of prophecies? it was due to them not sticking their noses in every corner of the world. That SF update that made the enemies scatter really pissed pissed me off. I loved being my fire nuker, throwing meteor shower and firestorm and just blowing shit up. is that really so wrong? it is something that I actually enjoyed, and anet took it from us. it has just gotten so bad. the playerbase seems to have just sunk down the tubes, which is probably because there are nothing but 13 year olds running around. i just want the old days back, when the game was actually fun, and when you did not get blasted by others when you did something you like.

lord dragon · Sep 07, 2007, 08:55 PM // 20:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Star Gazer

wow, there is a rank 10 LB? never knew that. thought mine was maxed at 8...oh well o.o

anyway, its not so much about being better than others...its a sense of accomplishment. lets face it, we play games to win. we do not want to lose, and we dont want to spend hours a day to accomplish some small feat. granted, i love the grind...it will keep me interested in the game for just a little bit, but it will get old doing it on all 10 characters. i say if someone wants to have max armor, let them. if that is their sense of accomplishment, why should it be so bad?

people, like freekedout fish and the 'fanboi' bandits, tend to think ANet has the BEST way of doing things, and if you are not doing it their way, then it is wrong. People tend to forget that others have lives outside of the game, and having people grind and grind and grind when they do not have the TIME.

Anet has lost touch with their playerbase...did they not realize the success of prophecies? it was due to them not sticking their noses in every corner of the world. That SF update that made the enemies scatter really pissed pissed me off. I loved being my fire nuker, throwing meteor shower and firestorm and just blowing shit up. is that really so wrong? it is something that I actually enjoyed, and anet took it from us. it has just gotten so bad. the playerbase seems to have just sunk down the tubes, which is probably because there are nothing but 13 year olds running around. i just want the old days back, when the game was actually fun, and when you did not get blasted by others when you did something you like.

I used to be proud that I could, out run, out manuver, evade, and escape mobs headed to the next area. It was a lot of fun for me to do it this way. Gave the game a sense of excitement to see if I could pull it off. Now I have to hit C, spacebar instead so I can get a title that is tied to a skill that is going to be required in the future in a pug team.

I understand that people like titles and are truly proud of them. I appreciate when the max them so I can take a bigger challenge and go to FOW and UW because I like these areas to play sometimes.

I truly like a challenge where the odds are against me. Hitting C, spacebar is not one of them. No skill involved just endless boredom.

freekedoutfish · Sep 07, 2007, 09:12 PM // 21:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Star Gazer

people, like freekedout fish and the 'fanboi' bandits, tend to think ANet has the BEST way of doing things, and if you are not doing it their way, then it is wrong. People tend to forget that others have lives outside of the game, and having people grind and grind and grind when they do not have the TIME.
.

well as ive said countless times now, i dont live inside the game. I only play a few hours a night and id much rather be at the student union drinking with mates.

But somehow i seem to corpe with the game, get to rank 4-5 on all norn, asura and drawf, etc perfectly fine. Ive not had any issues there and I havent farmed or repeated quests or dungeons.

I seem to be able to afford armor sets and weapons, and achieve max titles with very little effort or time consumption.

I also dont seem to get bothered that my pve only skills arent maxed out, or that i dont even own them all. Maybe its just my mentality of realising this is just a game and if you take it too seriously its not fun anymore.

Grind is only there if you see it as grind.

Grind is also only there if you choose to do the stuff that requires grind.

If you have the mentality of wanting all the pve only skills and wanting them to be 100% effective, the youre in no position to complain about it taking forever to grind those ranks because you chose to do it. No one forced you.

If you choose to grind your ranks to 5 really fast, to get armor before anyone else, then that is your choice and you cant complain that is took hours of farming. You could have just played the storyline and made those points gradually.

If you choose to do the grinding stuff then yes the game will get boring and you'l have it. If you dont and you only do what you need to, and the fun stuff then you'l enjoy it.

Anything ingame that requires grind (except LB gaze, 10k faction and rank 1 SS), isnt compulsary. You dont need to grind 95% of things ingame to play it. But if you choose to grind titles then that is your choice. You cant then turn around and say "well that wasnt fun" because you chose to do it.

Its like shooting yourself in the foot, and later saying "well that hurt alot and now I have 4 toes. Im not very happy with the guy who sold me this gun because I shot myself after I aimed it at my feet and pulled the trigger".

No one is twisting your armor to use the pve only skills, or increase titles or ranks or to get the new armor sets or weapons.

If you choose to do that.... then dont complain when it you dont like. There is an entire game of alternative content to take part in. Go do something else.

lord dragon · Sep 07, 2007, 09:38 PM // 21:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

well as ive said countless times now, i dont live inside the game. I only play a few hours a night and id much rather be at the student union drinking with mates.

But somehow i seem to corpe with the game, get to rank 4-5 on all norn, asura and drawf, etc perfectly fine. Ive not had any issues there and I havent farmed or repeated quests or dungeons.

I seem to be able to afford armor sets and weapons, and achieve max titles with very little effort or time consumption.

I also dont seem to get bothered that my pve only skills arent maxed out, or that i dont even own them all. Maybe its just my mentality of realising this is just a game and if you take it too seriously its not fun anymore.

Grind is only there if you see it as grind.

Grind is also only there if you choose to do the stuff that requires grind.

If you have the mentality of wanting all the pve only skills and wanting them to be 100% effective, the youre in no position to complain about it taking forever to grind those ranks because you chose to do it. No one forced you.

If you choose to grind your ranks to 5 really fast, to get armor before anyone else, then that is your choice and you cant complain that is took hours of farming. You could have just played the storyline and made those points gradually.

If you choose to do the grinding stuff then yes the game will get boring and you'l have it. If you dont and you only do what you need to, and the fun stuff then you'l enjoy it.

Anything ingame that requires grind (except LB gaze, 10k faction and rank 1 SS), isnt compulsary. You dont need to grind 95% of things ingame to play it. But if you choose to grind titles then that is your choice. You cant then turn around and say "well that wasnt fun" because you chose to do it.

Its like shooting yourself in the foot, and later saying "well that hurt alot and now I have 4 toes. Im not very happy with the guy who sold me this gun because I shot myself after I aimed it at my feet and pulled the trigger".

No one is twisting your armor to use the pve only skills, or increase titles or ranks or to get the new armor sets or weapons.

If you choose to do that.... then dont complain when it you dont like. There is an entire game of alternative content to take part in. Go do something else.

If it unbalances the game, it does.

Artkin · Sep 07, 2007, 09:43 PM // 21:43

MY thread endures....agree or not....I'm still GRINDING to JUST GET TO SEE what armor is offered, and that's only on 1 character.

Triple XP weekend!!! WHY NOT 3x title weekend????????????????????

Artkin · Sep 07, 2007, 09:47 PM // 21:47

GOAL of GW:EN is to keep you GRINDING until GW2 comes out...it's that simple!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

lord dragon · Sep 07, 2007, 09:55 PM // 21:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Artkin

GOAL of GW:EN is to keep you GRINDING until GW2 comes out...it's that simple!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As I see it, you are correct. I had such high hopes for GWEN. I still have some hope with GW2, but will wait quite a while and listen to the naysayers before I think of purchasing it.

Good news is I get to see here who gives GWEN and honest (good and bad) evaluation and who blindly follows whatever Anet puts out. Will help if they are still around to evaluate it.

freekedoutfish · Sep 07, 2007, 09:57 PM // 21:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by lord dragon

If it unbalances the game, it does.

When what unbalances the game?
When it does what?
How does (what ever your on about) it unbalance the game?

I really cant think what in GWEN could possibly unbalance any aspect of the GWs!

lord dragon · Sep 07, 2007, 10:02 PM // 22:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

When what unbalances the game?
When it does what?
How does (what ever your on about) it unbalance the game?

I really cant think what in GWEN could possibly unbalance any aspect of the GWs!

Please read the above posts. It explains it. I would hate to copy and paste it all again and make a large post when one is not needed.

TabascoSauce · Sep 07, 2007, 10:53 PM // 22:53

What freekedoutfish is saying is that the grind is optional, and unimportant.

What he is dodging is the fact that there have been entire areas of the game (DOA anyone) that PUGs seem to have an elitism pro-grind attitude.

He is saying that it is irrelevant. What we are saying is that it is a fact.

It has already happened, making it not quite fit the definition of irrelevant.

Oh, well I guess it is irrelevant if you never want to go into the DOA without grinding LB. Even he says that he understands how important that can be.

All I can say is, silence is not consent, and I can go on posting all year about how grind is a bad trend. Read every post before this one I have made. There is a trend towards grind that is tied to in-game player abilities. This is not the original game vision, and I would definitely like to let my protest to this be known. For every post he has that grind is not important, I can post how +100 armor party-wide is pretty uh, what is the word I am looking for, oh yeah - important?

Thanks!
TabascoSauce

lord dragon · Sep 07, 2007, 11:19 PM // 23:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by TabascoSauce

What freekedoutfish is saying is that the grind is optional, and unimportant.

What he is dodging is the fact that there have been entire areas of the game (DOA anyone) that PUGs seem to have an elitism pro-grind attitude.

He is saying that it is irrelevant. What we are saying is that it is a fact.

It has already happened, making it not quite fit the definition of irrelevant.

Oh, well I guess it is irrelevant if you never want to go into the DOA without grinding LB. Even he says that he understands how important that can be.

All I can say is, silence is not consent, and I can go on posting all year about how grind is a bad trend. Read every post before this one I have made. There is a trend towards grind that is tied to in-game player abilities. This is not the original game vision, and I would definitely like to let my protest to this be known. For every post he has that grind is not important, I can post how +100 armor party-wide is pretty uh, what is the word I am looking for, oh yeah - important?

Thanks!
TabascoSauce

I hear ya. I don't know how to explain it to freekedoutfish that this kind of thinking is what will kill the game in the end. I don't want to see GW end. I like the game as it was before GWEN.

Did I like having to farm LB points? Hated every minute of it. Waited until there was a triple faction weekend to do it and really did use a laptop to go outside so I had something to do while being that mindlessly bored (leared that flowers will follow the sun all day, LOL).

Why would I do that? Because I wanted to go to DOA. I wanted to take part in a challenge in the game. I love DOA hard mode. I know, to some this is not fun, but to me, it lets me use my skill in the game.

It is not about the loot. It is not about the gold. It is not about the drops. It is fun to take on an area that is almost impossible to beat, and beat it. Having a reward at the end it nice, and gives players a reason to attempt it. Once they have though, if they enjoyed it, they come back becuase it is fun.

With the introduction of the new skills tied to titles, I can see a trend where either:

A: No one will care and I can continue in the areas I like.

B: I will be forced into a skill that I must have to be on a pug.

I already know what will happen. DOA is my example. If GWEN skill were tied to a challenge, I would be on board. I wouldn't care if it took weeks of trial and error to beat whatever it is. That would be fun. As it is, it rewards the players with unlimited time or poor playing ability that believe that if it is there I have to kill it.

It is such a shame that GW used to be skill based, and now is GRIND based.

Just remember the southpark episode about WOW. I can truly see this happening with GW. I hope and pray that the developers don't believe the hype they see here of the blindless and actually play the game so they can see for themselves.

Grind = mindless.

Skill = fun.

Artkin · Sep 08, 2007, 12:13 AM // 00:13

GWs ALWAYS stated that they were about SKILL not grinding to obtain high skill levels...now gotta GRIND to get the skills

Well you tell me what has GWs become???

I'm getting ready to give all my stuff away actually and take up WoW I think...mainly because I think GWs is DEAD or on its last breath.

THE ONLY THING THAT NEVER CHANGED ABOUT GWs...IS THE PRICE!!!

GloryFox · Sep 08, 2007, 01:10 AM // 01:10

The problem as I see it is the word "needed". Some people hide behind that word as if "needed" was the sole reason for being upset about the grinding.

So lets see what else is not needed in GW. For each of these arguments about how we should not complain about grind you can say the following is not needed.

15k armor..... Not needed... (1.5k works just the same)
PvE skills..... Not needed... (I hear about this from PvP threads all day long)
Assassin, Mesmer, Paragon, Dervish, Ritualist.... Not needed... (Ele, necro, warrior, monk, ranger why anything else?)
Runes..... Not needed... (honestly you can do the missions with a 12 attrib)
Inscriptions..... Not needed...(you just need basic armor)
Elite Skills..... Not needed... (you can make good non elite builds)
Weapon Skins..... Not needed... (As long as its functional who cares)
HERO's ...... Not needed... (You have henchmen)
Weapon smiths..... Not needed... (you can always use collectors)

As you can see anyone with no vision can argue what is and what is not needed opinions will differ according to play style and personal in game skill. Many pro's here know that you can even clear FOW with no weapons starting out. So are starting weapons "Not Needed"?

I fail to understand the "not needed" arguments in this thread. Considering none of the above is "needed". Even Freakedoutfish says he needs a PvE skill "Lightbringers Gaze" then says that PvE skills are not needed. What a hypocrite's retort. Truth is, Lightbringers Gaze is "not needed" either, to beat any area in ROT, but it helps a lot and is fun to use.

You can simply add to the list above from here. The argument for "Not needed" is simply "Not needed".

Sorry ANET you have lost your vision and I hope you loose your player base, and GW2 dies a horrible death.

Your grind is simply "Not Needed" to be a successful game.

Sol Deathgard · Sep 08, 2007, 01:30 AM // 01:30

This is hilarious. I started playing the 2moons beta before Gwen comes out and you wanna talk about grind try that. it will take you MONTHS just to get to the max level and everyone complaining about the grind in that game are told to come here cause the grind is almost nothing.

1. The dungeons are llike doing Sorrow's Furnace, and look at that, no one complains about doing that for greens. At least you are doing something there.

2. Titles for crafters & armors can be gotten by playing through the game normally. If you can't, you aren't grabbing the blessings like you should.

3. For all the arguments about the grind, I remember back when there was only prophocies so many people complained about how the game should be more like WoW. and look at that, GW2 is basiclly WoW & GW has been given all these things that people have asked for. For all those that don't like it, your peers asked for it, cry to them.

lord dragon · Sep 08, 2007, 02:49 AM // 02:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sol Deathgard

This is hilarious. I started playing the 2moons beta before Gwen comes out and you wanna talk about grind try that. it will take you MONTHS just to get to the max level and everyone complaining about the grind in that game are told to come here cause the grind is almost nothing.

1. The dungeons are llike doing Sorrow's Furnace, and look at that, no one complains about doing that for greens. At least you are doing something there.

2. Titles for crafters & armors can be gotten by playing through the game normally. If you can't, you aren't grabbing the blessings like you should.

3. For all the arguments about the grind, I remember back when there was only prophocies so many people complained about how the game should be more like WoW. and look at that, GW2 is basiclly WoW & GW has been given all these things that people have asked for. For all those that don't like it, your peers asked for it, cry to them.

The same ones that think it is ok to sit all day going C, spacebar? Oh man, it is doomed then if they are now in control.